Almedin Salkic

Abstract:

Almedin Salkic is a Bosniak member of the Carlisle community who emigrated from Bosnia in 2002. Born in Dimnici, Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1985, Almedin and his family lived within the country for the entirety of the war. His father disappeared when the family went to look for refuge in the city of Srebrenica, and he survived the warehouses that Bosnians were placed into by Serbian soldiers. His recollection of this event also includes a brief interaction with Bosnian Serb General Ratko Mladic while held in Srebrenica. The impact of this event on his life during and after the war is detailed by Almedin, as well as the immigration of his family to the United States. In Carlisle, Almedin has worked with both the city hall, and the Bosniaks Islamic Cultural Center. Almedin also gives his thoughts on the importance of the Bosnians in Carlisle and Cumberland County Oral History Project in addressing current events that he finds similar to those he experienced in Bosnia. This interview was conducted in his home in Carlisle Pennsylvania.

Keywords:

Bosnia, DHL, Dimnici, Srebrenica, Ratko Mladic, Tuzla, Dubrave, United Nations, Bosniaks Islamic Cultural Center in Carlisle, Carlisle School District, Ramadan, Charlotte, North Carolina

Time stamp Summary:

(1:22) - Immigration to the United States

(5:14) - Transition to Life in the US

(11:59) Talking about who his father was

(13:20) Beginnings of the war in Bosnia

(17:23) Memories from being held in Srebrenica, and the loss of his father

(25:00) Life after the war, before moving to America

(32:37) How he met his fiancée

(35:36) His opinions on the U.N.’s complacency to the genocide in Srebrenica

(38:21) His visits back to Bosnia with his fiancée

(45:24) His work with the Bosniak community of Carlisle

(49:47) How welcoming Carlisle felt to him and his family

(51:48) Final thoughts on the project and the questions

Transcript:

Michael Wymer (MW) 00:00

And then we'll kind of go into your story. So, I'm going to put . . . there, How's that sound?

Sam Lavine (SL) 00:04

Sounds good

MW 00:04 

Awesome

Almedin Salkic (AS) 00:06

Got sound

MW 00:06 

Um, and if you see me write things down or anything then um, I'm actually going to take off my necklace (sound of necklace being removed), wouldn't that be smart? But if you see me write anything down that's just me kind of taking notes for next question 

AS 00:15 

OK, mhm

MW 00:16 

Um, but for the most part I'll just kind of let you be free to uh talk about your experience, um so first of all um, let me make sure I have my phone on me and got the time. So I am Michael Wymer, I'm here with the Bosnians in [Carlisle and] Cumberland County Oral History Project, um it is currently 12:57 [pm] and we are interviewing Almedin in his home in Carlisle, um we have discussed a little bit before, but you know that um 

AS 00:47

Mhm

MW 00:47

We are going to be doing an interview and afterwards you'll have the right to sign a release form. Can I have your consent for this interview?

AS 00:54

Ah yes

MW 00:55

Ok cool, um so uh could you uh please state your name um full name just so we know um how you want it to be said?

AS 01:05 

My name is Almedin Salkic

MW 01:07 

Cool, could you spell that for us?

AS 01:08 

Uh A-L-M-E-D-I-N and last name Salkic S-A-L-K-I-C

MW 01:15 

Wonderful, um and at any point if you don't want to answer a question we can totally move on, or we can take a break.

AS 01:21

OK

MW 01:21

Yeah

AS 01:22 

Sound's Good

MW 01:22 

Um, so I guess we'll start out, if you could tell me a little about yourself, um in, in Carlisle. How are are, how long have you lived in Carlisle?

AS 01:28

So, I been uh, here in Carlisle since uh June, July in 2002, uh we moved down from North Carolina uh, so, it's been few years now

MW 01:39

Wonderful, I'm going to be recording a secondary one [audio]

AS 01:42

Oh yeah no problem 

MW 01:42 

Just a backup audio

AS 01:43 

Mhm

MW 01:43 

Just in case [set's up phone to record audio] um, and how long did you live in, did you say North Carolina?

AS 01:47

Ah yeah, so May 7th 2002 we came to, uh North Carolina from Bosnia and I came with my four brothers and my mom, uh and my mom was, uh, she had a stomach cancer a few years before arriving to America and, uh that was the biggest reason we, uh moved to United States and because, uh we were trying to find a better doctor for her and, um (clears throat) so, yeah, uh, when we arrived there, uh she as only alive for another 20 days, 15, 20 days in there, and then she ended up um passing

MW 02:21

I'm very sorry to hear that

AS 02:22

Uh so yeah so uh, and then a few months later we, uh found out about Carlisle and, uh and uh, the Bosnian community and stuff like that so we decided, with our uncle who was already living there, uh to move to, to Carlisle

MW 02:36 

Could you talk a little bit about, uh how you heard about Carlisle and that there was a, a Bosnian community here? Who kind of cl, clued you into that?

AS 02:43 

So uh, before coming here my uncle back in . . . 1996, um he, he came to North Carolina and he was living there, uh before us even arriving in 2002, and um, he um, his wife's cousin, who was living here, I guess they, uh visit her, a few times before, um our arrival, so he knew that there's a big Bosnian community in here and that's how, kind of we got pulled with him to come up here, but yeah.

MW 03:17 

And your uncle, was that the first member of your family to come to America? um

AS 03:22

Uh yeah, so my aunt was the first one, and then a few months later my uncle came after her, but yeah she was, she was the first one who, who came here, and the reason she came in here was her father in-law who was in, uh, uh, what do you call it? the war, uh, camp? uh, like, a prison, so I don't know how the program worked, I guess they had options to, um, from, you know, from, from the prison to go go, to come here, I, I don't want to call it prison

MW 03:52 

Um

AS 03:52 

It wasn't a prison it was like a war, you know, they got captured

MW 03:54 

Refugee camp?

AS 03:55

Refugee camp that’s it, yeah, um so he took the option to come here and then after he brought her he, here, so then she brought her brother, my uncle, here, so yeah

MW 04:06 

And, um, as you've been living in Carlisle, what do you do currently?

AS 04:10

Uh, right now I, uh, I manage one of the buildings for DHL, uh, supply chain.

MW 04:15 

Wonderful, uh, is that something that you've done for a while?

AS 04:17

Uh, yeah, so, uh, after High School, um, since, you know, uh, I'm, I'm middle child so I got two brothers older and two younger, uh, the older one, when we got here he was, uh, 20, and then the other one was 18, I was 16, and my, the other one was 15, and then one was, uh, like nine, eight, nine, so after high school I, um, realized that, you know, I needed money and job so, I got a job with DHL, and I've been there actually since after high school, but, um, you know working there, and through the whole process they had a uh, education program reimbursement, so I took advantage of that, and then I went back to college, uh, few years later and got my self a degree for, uh, business management, so, yeah, that's (small laugh) pretty much the job that's all I did there. so yeah.

MW 05:13 

That's awesome, yeah being the middle child can be . . . 

AJ 05:13

Yeah, yeah, 

MW 05:14 

Tough. um, When you came over, as, as a family, uh, was there different reactions from your siblings? What was that kind of adjustment like for you, you all?

AS 05:23 

Uh, I'll be honest with you it was, uh, it was uh, extremely, hard because, uh, uh, before, years before that we lost our dad, which, um, like he, he, he, uh, uh, he was missing for years and, you know, we, they found his body in 2004, um, so, up to that point, you know, there was always some kind of home that, um, you know, he'll come at some point, but, um that obviously never happened, and then, uh, you know, living with mom it was kind of like, (gestures with both hands), you know what I mean, and it was mom and dad, she was the package, so, uh, that was a hard point, you know, losing her, and then coming to, you know, America, it was kinda, you know, and a new country, not just, uh, you can be anywhere, but, um, it was, it was a shock, uh, not just a culture shock, but it was a shock because we lost that, you know, that rock that held us together, so, but yeah

MW 06:24 

That's very tough

AS 06:25 

Yeah, (laugh) yeah that was (laugh), really tough, uh, tough few years, but, yeah, uh, but, uh, in a same, it was a horrible thing that, you know, that we went through, and, and that, that year or two, you know, coming here, but, it brought us all together a little bit more, my brothers and I, so, and we are all, um, there's four of us living here, the younger one just moved to Arizona for, for a year, he'll be back, but, uh, yeah.

MW 06:55

And do you stay in contact pretty often?

AS 06:56

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he just, uh, his wife just gave birth a few months ago, so, uh, that, that was the reason they went there, just for a year, um, but they, they'll be back yeah.

MW 07:07 

Congratulations to his wife 

AS 07:08 

Yeah, thank you, thanks you, yeah

MW 07:09 

Nice, um, when you came over did you have any, uh, trouble adjusting to speaking a new language or, um, a new culture?

AS 07:19

Ye... yeah, uh, you know, uh, coming here I didn't really speak any English, maybe like three words (laugh), for some reason I, I, I knew how to say "I understand", I don't know why, to be honest with you, you know, it's like, now thinking back it's kind of like I could have learned some, you know, few more smaller words, but I, I, you know, that was the one word that, you know, kind of, stuck with me from school, and the music, and movies, you know, you just, um, so, that like pretty much the only one I remember that I knew, uh, but, uh, adjusting to the, the culture and, uh, the living, it, it was, I wouldn't say it was hard, but it was interesting, it was, it was, like, it was shocked, you know, it was just, the culture shock that, you know, uh, back home all you see, it's like, you know, these big houses with the nice green grass, nice cars, you know, like people dressed really nicely and stuff, and then, um, you know, arriving to North Carolina, uh, uh, we were like, uh, maybe 20 minutes away from, uh, Charlotte, and I remember my first morning going outside and asking my uncle like "where's the grass?" (laughs) you know, "where's the grass?" or "where's the all the . . ." you know what I mean, the big houses and, uh, that was kind of like, (laugh), awaken I guess, if you want to call it (laugh)

MW 08:42 

Would you mind describing a little bit about the place that you first move into when you came to the United States? What was that like? 

AS 08:47

Like the house?

MW 08:48 

Yeah, like what was it like?

AS 08:49 

Oh okay, so, uh, actually my, my uncle he, uh, he established himself when he arrived to US he was a, he was a really educated, I mean he is still ah..., still eh..., really educated guy, uh, but he was, uh, uh, well educated in Bosnia, and when he arrived he already spoke English before even coming in here [United States], so, uh, it was much easier for him to, you know, kind of move around and get better jobs than other people and stuff, so, he was, he was really established, and when we arrived he, uh, he actually, I think it was like a year before we came he build his own house and stuff like that, so, uh, you know, uh, the house was really nice, uh, you know, uh, the, he had, you know, a few cars, most of the people barely had one, but he had a few, so, like I said, he was well established before we

MW 09:36

That's awesome

AS 09:37 

Even arrived, so I, I didn't, uh, experience any, um, . . . poverty when I came to America because we, he was the one who brought us in, uh, a lot of, you know, the other Bosnians or, you know, they came through the churches or stuff like that, but we came directly to him, so he was the one who was sponsoring us and stuff like that, paid for our tickets and stuff like that, so yeah,

MW 09:59 

Yeah

AS 10:00 

Yeah

MW 10:01 

And you mentioned that your mother, it was your mother's illness that was kind of the thing that made you all, um, come over, um, was there any conversation before, um, before th..., th..., uh, before her cancer, uh, of coming to America? Or, or of leaving Bosnia?

AS 10:17 

Uh, there was, there was conversations, uh, but, I think that, um, that she, and we, you know, as, as, uh, I'm going to say as, as a man, as a boys, we were boys, we were kids, but there was that, um, . . .  there was that pride of, uh, that, that, that country, you know, uh, because, we lost, you know, most of our family to the country, so that piece of land meant a lot to us, and um, so we decided not to go, just because, like, we wanted to stay and rebuild and, um, build a life there, but, um, you know, once she got sick, uh, years later after the war stopped we realized that country's [Bosnia] not doing anything for, for, the, the, the, the kids of the soldiers, um, so we started, like, uh, losing some kind of hope for a better life in the country, so, um, I mean, I'm not saying (laugh) I still love Bosnia (laugh), and, uh, stuff like that, but I saw, you know, the politicians, and stuff after, after the war they, um, we were forgotten, we felt like, you know, we were kids of somebody who died for the, the country and, (shrugs), we were forgotten after that, I think my family was living for years for like less than hundred dollars a month from support from the, the government, which, you know, single mom with five kids . . . picture yourself living (laughs) anywhere, but, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't easy.

MW 11:59

Um, and would you mind talking a little bit further about your, your father? We don't have to start directly in the war, maybe

AS 12:05

We can...

MW 12:06 

We can begin before that, um, some happy memories or anything like that.

AS 12:10

Uh, so, I was . . . uh, when the w..., like before the war started I was somewhere around six, six years old, so it was kind of like, you know, you still learning about yourself and then kind of the war wiped those (gestures with one hand) you know, happy memories that we had, but uh, yeah, there's not, not, too many memories about my father, um, there's some like during the war, but since he was, uh, he was a soldier, so, um, he would come over once in a while, you know, but most of the times he spent in (gestures with one hand), uh, in the war, so, uh, yeah, yeah

MW 12:54 

Um, and going back to thinking about Bosnia, um I shoulda asked this at the beginning of the interview, could you say where you were born, and when you were born?

AS 13:02 (sirens in background)

So I was born, uh, December fourth, 1985 in a small village close to Srebrenica, uh, the village was called Dimnici, uh, it was a few miles away from, uh, Srebrenica . . . yeah, 

MW 13:16 

Yeah, um, and it's, I mean it's very well known, um, kind of the 

AS 13:20 

Yeah

MW 13:20

Events going around Srebrenica, um, and you were very young when the war broke out, do you have any memories of when you, of a change from before the war to during the war?Um, was there an idea that something was coming, did adults talk to you about it?

AS 13:35 

Yeah, so, uh, we lived on this, uh, the village is kind of sitting on a, on a side of the mountain, so it goes like (gestures with one hand), you know, kind of like a slope up, uh, so we live in this, uh, small village which was, you know, like I said, a few, few miles away from Srebrenica, and we were kind of in our own world (gestures with one hand), uh, we had a farm we were living on a farm, my family farmed a lot , um, the animals, and all that, so, uh, but, they, so, um, the culturally, uh, the, the, the, the kids always live with parents, so my, my dad he only had one brother, and he had four, four sisters, so, um, the sisters got married, and moved on and then my, my uncle he was, uh, I think eighteen, maybe in that time, uh he was still in uh college, and, uh, there was, uh, that mandatory army after the school you had to go to the army, so he was kind of preparing, graduating, preparing to go to the army, and, um, you know the life was, uh, I mean, as I, like I said before, you know, it was really hard for me (laugh) (gesture with both hands), not to remember, but I remember being peaceful, living on a farm, happy, you know, I mean we were all happy, and, um, you know, uh, like, every other family, uh, but, there was, uh, we lived with my grandma, my grandpa, and there was, there was a talk about, you know, war, and, kind of, when my uncle went to, um, this, uh, uh, the camp for the, you know

MW 15:08 

Refugees?

AS 15:08

Nah, like a young soldiers off to sign up because it was a mandatory, but uh, uh, there was a talk there and then at some point somebody told them "hey", um, because they were in a, in a, bo... uh, it was Yugoslavia but it was like in a certain, now* Serbian camp, um, somebody told them, some guy, told them "hey, I think, you know, you guys, because you are Bosnians, muslims, you should, at night, just leave the camp and go, because this is not looking good". So, after he arrived, you know, it was more like, hey, you know, somebody that you know was touched by that, or knows something about it, so, it was kind of like going around, but, uh, my father, he was in, uh, he had a, a transportation, like a bus, so him and uh, another guy, they were sharing a bus, um, and they were driving, you know, these, uh, workers from different villages to the city to work and bring them back, and then at some point there was a talk about "hey, why don't we just pack the family, you know, half a bus for you, half for me, and then we'll leave, uh go to Germany, Slovenia, or somewhere where, you know, just escape" and, uh, I remember it was like a, you know, a huge, I don't want to call it a meeting, but it was like a family kind of, uh,  meeting that, uh, they talked about that, like, about leaving and, my, my grandparents felt like, "ah this is just, you know", uh, because in that time Tito died and they tried to like, kind of, uh, elect a new president of Yugoslavia, so they kind of felt like "ah this is just kind of poli... you know, politicians arguing between each other, we'll be okay like nothing's going to happen" and, uh, we decided to stay in our, on our farm, in our house (sniffs)

MW 16:58

Uh, Do you remember some of the, the arguments for and against leaving from family members?

AS 17:05

So, uh, I know, my, my grandparents were really strongly disagree to leave, so, soon as they said they're not leaving it wasn't an argument anymore, it just became, like my dad said, "yeah, if they're not, I'm not" So, uh,we just ended up staying,

MW 17:23

Nice, uh, would you mind talking about, um, when you last saw your father? Or when he was last heard from?

AS 17:28 

Uh, so, uh, that was, uh, so that was a July tenth, uh, actually, July eleventh, so, uh, there was like a early morning, where, when everything exploded, and you know, it was just a, uh, mess. I don't know how much you guys know about it, but in Srebrenica we were, uh, we were down in uh, in the city, which probably has, I mean, before the war, it was maybe like 15,000 to 20,000 people living, uh, and then during the war, it went up to like, almost, you know, 70, 80 thousand people living in the, in that small city so you can just imagine the mess in there already, but, um, in the morning, we were in this house staying with our, uh, grandparents, um, our mom's side, grand, uh,  dad and mom, um, and uh, it's just, uh, they started shooting from everywhere, and we were all in this house there, uh, so, you know, we kind of, uh, during the war, you learn that you never go to sleep, like in your pajamas, you go to sleep ready to go like with your shoes on and everything, jacket, and then just soon as start shooting, you gotta run, uh, so, we learned that, you know, through the war, but, um,  yeah, that was a July, July 11th, that was the last time I saw him, uh, we were all kind of running towards the UN, uh, base, so the UN base was like (Gestures with one hand), end of the city and then we were in the beginning of the city kind of living there, so everyone try to, you know, was running towards the UN base, and me with my family, um, when we went outside in front of the house, it was kind of still dark, but you could, like, kind of see the, the city just because of all the bullets and all the everything that was shooting at us, so, uh, it was already kind of like early morning, uh, so we try, I remember like my mom said, like "run" or something like that and not thinking, you know, when they tell you to run, you just run, you know, I asked and I kind of knew where we going, so at some point I turned around and none of my family is next to me. It was just me in the middle of the, this mass, you know, thousands and thousands of people running around, um,  and you know, getting killed around you and stuff like that, so uh, it was, uh, yeah. So I ran into this, uh, there was a hospital and across from the hospital, it was a UN base, uh, it was like a, I think it was like a hospital school, so it was like a school soccer field or something like that, that's where they set up the base, um, and, um, there was a big wall, uh, beside the road, so I figure, and I was, you know, back then, I was maybe eight, nine, I figured, "oh, if I go sit on that, you know, on the, on top of the, the, the who..., wall, like, I'll see them because they have to pass through, you know, that way, they can't go anywhere else, they have to come there, or unless, you know, they got killed, but at some point, somebody was going to come there". And then somehow, I found them there, all of them and, uh, we all, you know, kind of, we're together. And then uh, because, they, so there was a, the talk between, like, "Hey, should we go to UN base?" "should we run to the woods?", because, you know, they kind of figure, if, uh, if men would stay, they're gonna get killed in a, you know, if they get captured, or they just go and go to the woods and run through the woods. So that's where we decide, or he[Almedin’s father] decided to, to actually go with, you know, other guys through the woods, um, and let us go to the base. And, um we stood in front of the base, it was kind of like a small , uh, a river, kinda like, you know, just a strea..., stream, with a bridge over it, and then we stood next to that bridge and said goodbyes, and, you know, he told us that he will see as soon, because like walking from Srebrenica, to, to, to the Bosnia territory, Tuzla, was maybe like, two, three days top, um, like, if you walk through the woods, so, you know, we kind of, nobody ever knew that that's gonna be the last time you're gonna see him, but after that, he left. We went to UN base, and from there, they, uh, took us down to this warehouse, uh, smaller warehouse, and then that's what they capture us all. Or I, honestly I don't even know, I think the UN, uh, you know, uh, capture us for them, and just put us in this warehouse and let us be there, I mean, that's what it was, honestly. But yeah,

MW 22:12

How long did you stay there?

AS 22:13 

Uh,so, we were there for three days uh, and um, so in a base, they had this trucks and the buses, and people would just, you know, kind of going inside, and I mean, it was packed, like, uh, I, I even look at sometimes, like the pictures and there's like, a, uh, um, there's a truck going with the people on it, in it, I mean, I don't even know, the driver just has like a small window to see everywhere, you know, the people are all around the trucks and stuff like that. So they took us inside, you could drive inside the warehouse, and that's where they took us out, and let us go, and just told us go to that room there, and so we went inside, and, uh, you couldn't see outside, there was a, uh, plywood on the windows, um, there was windows in the back, so like when you walk inside the room, it was like the dock doors are here (gestures with both hands), um,  there was a way you could get out on the, on the right side, a small door, like you'd go outside, and in the back, it was like a, just like, just window, huge windows, but there was a plywood there, so you couldn't really see, so was like really, really dark, little bit of light coming through. um, probably from like, you know, bullet holes and stuff like that. So, um, they keep bringing people, you know, uh, bringing people in, and I don't even know how many thousands of people end up being in that warehouse, but it was a really tight, you know, tight space, you couldn't really like lay down or, um, you know,  you can just kind of sit down and people around you. So we stayed there for three days, uh, in that, I don't even want to say hell, but that was a hell, if there's a hell, that was... um, but yeah, they were, you know, coming in. After they drop us all off, they close the door, and maybe I would say like few hours later, uh, the, the general Mladic, he came, um, with his soldiers, he came inside the, the warehouse, and then the fear of people, which when I think about it right now, it's like, you're in this box, and you know, this guy comes here, and everybody started running (gestures with both hands) towards the end of the wall, I mean, there's a wall there, you couldn't go anywhere, but pe..., you know, like the screams and all that crazy, uh, noises that people were making, people were passing out because it was July, it was extremely hot, no water, no food, uh, scared, um, you know, no place to go to bathroom anything like that, so, um, but through, he [Mladic] was just there for a minute, he left, and then after that it was just kind of like every few hours they would come in take, you know, young men, uh, young women, uh, somewhere, they, they, never came back so, but yeah, yeah

MW 25:00 

Thank you that's very, that's incredibly hard to tell, thank you. Um, we can, we can go a little bit, um later, do you want to talk, um, about your time, uh, after, after the war, um, before, before you came to America?

AS 25:14

Yeah, yeah, so, uh after that, again, my uncle who was, uh, shot in Srebrenica a few years before the Srebrenica fail, or fall, um, the UN took him, uh, with, you know, their medical helicopter, they took him from Srebrenica to Tuzla, um, and he was already in Tuzla, uh, living with the family, uh, the guy, so that was a guy from another city that was shot. And in Srebrenica, he was in the hospital with my uncle, but he didn't have any family, so my uncle had us, that guy didn't have any family. So my family every time they went see my uncle, that would bring food for this guy, too, because they stayed in the same room. (sirens pass by)  And then, uh, a few years later, it was kind of opposite, my uncle was living in Tuzla, and that guy's family was there, but my uncle didn't have anybody. So they kind of became really good friends. And, uh, they were living, uh, in a, in a same house. So my uncle lived, um,  this basement, it was like a, I would say, like a one room upstairs or like, yeah, one room, one living room, and then bathroom upstairs, and the downstairs, it was just the whole, uh, basement, just a straight one room basement. And there was outside bathroom, um, there. So once we arrived from Srebrenica, uh, they drop, we walked. So let's go back to the warehouse,

MW 26:48

Mhm

AJ (26:48) 

After three days, um,they told us, "Hey, you guys are gonna go to Tuzla", And at that point, obviously, you don't trust them because you seeing, you know, people getting killed, left and right. And they were like, we can't let you all, just open door, let you guys all go, we have buses out there line up. So you have to walk like, you know, maybe few, few hundred feet from the warehouse to the main road where they had buses. Um, so they were like, we'll open the door, let the group go close the door, let the group go, in our heads like you just go outside, you're gonna get killed no matter, you know, I mean,that,  that was like thinking, and we were kind of, like, as a family it was, my aunt was there, my grandma, my mom, and then five of my brothers, my youngest one was a baby, because he was born '92, so he was like, three, three years old. So, uh, we we're kind of saying goodbye to each other, cause, you know, we know as soon as you walk out, you're gonna get killed, or that's what we were thinking, so, uh, we were kind of decide to stay all in the same, same group, so once we leave, we kind of, um, so they opened the door and then let groups go, let groups go, our, our time was to go, so we, so to walk, it was like a smaller path (gestures with both hands) to, from the warehouse to the main road, and all on the side of the road, or the small path, there's, uh, soldiers, the Serbian soldiers standing there and, uh, picking out, you know, young men, women, whoever, old men, I mean, anybody that was, uh, a male, it was picked out and put kind of on the other side, uh, and I don't know till this day where we did right to universe or God, but somehow all five of us, uh, went to the bus and nobody, you know, said anything to us, they just put, we just walked to the bus. And then after that, uh, the driver, who was a Serbian driver, but he was, so walking from the, the warehouse to the main road, you can just see, uh, piles and piles of, of dead bodies of men and, um, mostly men and then, uh, the men on the side, just sitting there, uh, waiting and then people are crying because, you know, there's, you know, there's a mom here,(gestures with both hands) the son is here, mom doesn't want to go because the son can't go, so it was just so much going on, but we kind of just put our heads down and hoped not to get picked, so we just walking to the bus, few minutes later, the driver, once the bus was full, he closed the door and, uh, as he drove away from the warehouse, he told us, uh, "put your heads down, don't look outside at all, um, at all, just look down, I'll drive and if I really really have to stop I'll stop other than that I will not stop". And he was like "once I stop and open the door, walk outside of bus and just go straight, I'll drive the bus like straight, you know, when I open the door the, the, the road it's gonna face you so get on that road look down, don't look up, don't say hi, nothing, just go, just go, go, go until you get to[Audio/Video Cuts Off (30:00), gap filled from backup audio: the Bosnia, uh Bosnian] uh, side, so we did that we drove there, and then, uh, we walked, I would say a few hours through, you know, night and stuff like that, so we arrived in a, uh, place called, uh, Dubrave, which is, um, it was a airport in Tuzla, um, so that's where they had everybody, uh, all the refugees in, uh, in there, and they give you a tents and stuff, so, we uh, we knew that our uncle lives over there already, and we kind of hope that he's going to come and find us, and he did next day he arrived, found us in Dubrave, and then he took us to Tuzla, and, uh, we lived in this house that just I described to you a few minutes ago, um, but yeah, yeah, so all five of us, five of us, our mom, our grandma, our aunt, and my uncle, we all live in this one room basement, uh, that was it, there was one room basement pretty much that's, uh, but that was, so that was a, obviously, few months later, they, they stopped the war, but, um, that was a hard, you know, years of living there, it was just kind of, it was pretty hard.

 

MW 31:09

Yeah

AS 31:10

Uh, yeah, so, but my, my aunt, and my grandma, they, they found a room in another house close by so they were living there, and my uncle, you know, he came to United States, so it was just my mom and my five brothers, we lived in this one room apartment for a while until we pretty much came here

MW 31:31

It's, it's wonderful that your family got to, to stick together like that
 

AS 31:37

Yeah, Yeah, I, It's, uh, It's kind of crazy, when you think about it, like all the, the negative or all, you know, the crazy stuff that was happening, and how, like, the positives that, we took the positive stuff out of negative and, you know, took the negative and created (gestures with both hands) it into a positive, you know, and that's, we are still, you know, pretty close, I mean, when I say close, like we'd see each other probably every weekend or talk every single day, so it's like, really close (laughs), but it's kind of nice to, to have that, you know, the kind of feel secure, like, I don't know how to explain (laughs)
 

MW 32:14

A sense of community

AS 32:15

Yeah, there you are, yeah, no, yeah, we kind of joke around, but we don't really need peop... anybody else, other than ourselves, because, like, you know, they'll, they all had babies and kids and, uh, you know, wives and stuff, so just us getting together, it's like 20 something people, so that's good enough, you don't need more than that, but yeah,

 MW 32:35

Mhm

AS 32:35

Yeah
 

MW 32:37

No, family, family is great, uh, do you wanna, at this point, could you talk a little bit about how you met your fiancée? um, I think that's a wonderful story

AS 32:43

Oh yeah!

MW 32:43

For like family
 

AS 32:46

Yeah, yeah, so, uh, when I, uh, so, we, when we moved to P A to here, Carlisle, um, in Bosnia I was, uh, because, uh, the education system is a little bit different, so we were, uh, I was my, I was supposed to go to my second year of, uh, university, but, in here, when I came here, they're like, "Oh, that's a high school in here. So you gotta go to your like 11th grade", So, uh, I, I graduated from Carlisle high school, so I went to 11th and 12th grade here, uh, so through school, obviously, it's, it's not that big of a school, so I kind of knew of her, and we kind of had like, you know, kind of same friends and stuff like that, but a few years later, um, I was in, uh, I think, uh, downtown, somewhere in a bookstore, one of the bookstores, um, I was in there, and then she was working there part time, she came back from Honduras, she was down there for a year, and we started talking, and you know, from the... then on, we've been together since, since then, but yeah.
 

MW 33:49

What's your fiancée's name?

AS 33:51

Uh, Meredith, but, uh, she goes by Mimi
 

MW 33:53

It's a beautiful name

AS 33:54

Yeah, thank you, yes

MW 33:56

Do you often talk to her or does she know about your, your past in Bosnia?

 

AS 33:58

Oh, yeah, so, she does, she does know, uh, she wrote the papers, uh I have somewhere, uh, I can let you read it at some point, but um, she, uh, she actually went back with me a few years ago, we were in, uh, in Bosnia for a month and, month and a week somewhere around there, uh but we were in Srebrenica, we actually went to the Memorial Center and, uh, we went to warehouse, now the warehouse, they, uh, they ma..., uh, uh, they made it into like a museum, and we were there, they were kind of like putting it together, let's put it that way, like, you know what I mean, so it wasn't finished, but now I know now it's finished, and, uh, but when we were there, they were just kind of putting it all together, uh. It was a, for her it was, uh, yeah, I mean, for me, uh, reliving, you know what I mean, like going in there, reliv... reliving that it was just kind of like, yeah, it was shocking, uh, and I think for her too, just from the stuff that she knew, and then, you know, just that, I don't know, there's a different, uh, different feeling inside, when you walk in, not just like for me, and I, you know, I understand that part, but like, even for her, like, I remember when we left the warehouse, uh, she was like, "oh, I need, like, I need a break, I need to sit down for a minute and you know, kind of calm down". So, but yeah, that was, uh, yeah, she knows, she knows a lot about, about what happened and stuff like that. Yeah. And she visited. So

 

MW 35:33

[To Sam Lavine, camera operator] We're still recording, right?
 

SL 35:35

Mhm
 

MW 35:35

Great I was just making sure

SL 35:36

[To Michael Wymer, interviewer] Can you ask about the UN?
 

MW 35:37

Oh, yeah, um, so, when you talk about the UN presence in Srebrenica, um, what was your kind of awareness of the presence? what did you think of the, the UN being there?

AS 35:47

Uh, looking back on right now, like I said, it was kinda like, uh, like, they, they helped them by, you know, uh, capturing us all and putting us in this warehouse. And I'm not saying that they didn't save us, maybe that way. Maybe if that were not there, maybe more of us would die, I don't, I'm not really sure what would happen, but they didn't do anything to stop 'em, which was, uh, you know, my understanding of it was, uh, uh, there was the agreement, you know, the UN, there was a f..., uh, uh ,uh, uh, safe, safe city, safe space, and, you know, when you lose, what, 11, 12 thousand people in, you know, a few days, it's not safe, but, um, I...,  you know, there were there, they were, like, you know, sitting on the truck and just staring at you. Uh, I think they were afraid just like we were, in my opinion, they didn't have any power over what was going on over the situation. I think they lost, uh, you know, probably, before we got to that point, I think they lost it. Which was, you know, was kind of shame on the world to let that happen, it, I, I think if, uh, if they didn't come there and made it into a, a ,a  safe zone, I think we will still had a chance to fight, but them being there, uh, they kinda, they took away the, the, the weapons as much as they could, because like, you couldn't be walking around with guns, because it's a safe zone, so, you know what I mean, so there was a, you know, there was agreement, "Hey, you want to live here, you're gonna give your, you know, your guns, your everything, so it'll be safe, it'll be peaceful", which was for a few months, but, once you know, they started again, (laugh), and it was like, "hey, you know, now you're not even protecting me. And you took everything that I you know, have to protect myself". So, um, I think they kind of, in a way, uh, and this is my opinion, I think they helped the genocide, in my opinion. I'm not saying they did, but, you know, I'm saying they did, myself, not the world, but I'm saying, I think that's how I felt, I felt like they, they kind of helped it more than, help them more than they helped us. That's, that's my, that's what I think.
 

MW 38:21

When you went back, um, to Bosnia, with Mimi, and saw the warehouse, what was it like for you?

AS 38:26

Uh, so when we arrived there, now they have like Memorial Center, all the stones are white, um, all the graves, they all same, everything's same. So when you go in there, it's just a, there's a big, uh, white circle, like a, you know, rock where it has names, all the people that are laying in there, and just seeing that it was like a, uh, uh, you can't believe it that, you know, that many people, and which one of the graves it's my dad there too, so it was kind of like, yeah, it was, uh, it was emotional, really emotional. And my, my cousin is laying right next to my dad, uh, he was 17 when he got killed, so it was, um, or when he went missing, but later they found him, uh, So there was a, there was a, kinda like uh, when people would tell you like, uh, you know, 500 right, in your head 500 it's not that many, but if you take 500 whatever, trees, and put them next to each other, and then you see 500 yourself then it like, you know, the picture gets a little bit, uh brighter than like in your head when you just think about a number. So seeing all those names it kind of hits you like, wow, this is you know, this is actually what it was, you know, and you look, uh, you know, like from one side it goes all the way down  (gestures with both hands) till they're like, pretty much a half mile, all white stones, and you know, that's all people there. So that was like my first, uh, kind of reaction like, wow, you know, this is what 11,000 people, dead people looks like, uh, I've never seen the, the, the graveyard that big or the Memorial Center that big, but when we went to warehouse it was, so the, the Memorial Center is here, there's a row, and then you cross and you go to the warehouse, uh, walking towards it, we actually walk into the, right next to the main door where where we got, what I got out, so it was kind of like a weird feeling, you know, you walking in here, and, uh, I think they did a pretty good job with inside because they didn't change much, so it's still kinda like, you know, uh, uh, dirty and broken and stuff like that, but they have, they started putting pictures around it, and then, we kind of walk around what, and looked at that, and it was, yeah, I was kinda like, I don't... there's a, uh, your body kind of, I can't explain but like, something inside of you. It's, it feels heavy, really, really heavy. And I think she [Mimi] felt it too, like I said, when we walked outside, you know, and on top of all that, uh, when we walked out, there was like a group of, uh, you know, moms that I know, they lost their sons, and there was sitting kind of in front of the warehouse crying, and there was was kind of like a hit from all that, um really, really sad, yeah. yeah, It was just like inside of you. It's, I don't... I can't, (laughs) it's like, it's heavy, it's really, really heavy, uh to, to go and re... you know, see it again, um and you kind of like, the, the mental pictures are kind of like coming to you, because I know what happened there, uh, when we left, uh and then you know, through the time we were there for those three days. It's pretty hard. but yeah.

 

MW 42:21

Thank you for sharing, it, it, it's tough, um. Do you know anybody else who's, who's gone back to Bosnia and visited, in, in your kinda community here?
 

AS 42:30

Oh, uh, oh, yeah, yeah there's, uh, yeah, yeah, a lot, a lot of Bosnians, uh, uh, from here, they kind of went back and, uh, uh, visited, and my brother, one of, actually two of my brothers, they, uh, been, actually three, only one haven't been back ever, but the other three have been over there a few times, so, um yeah, it's, uh, you know, I was kind of, like I said in beginning, you know, when you look at the, the, the Bosnian government, uh, when I went back, I didn't see too many changes. uh, there's still houses with the bullet holes in, in them. There's still buildings that are, you know what I mean, destroyed, they've never been fixed. So, uh, uh, uh, making the decision to, to look for a better life, um, it was kind of, I feel like it was the right decision for us, um, looking back now,

 

MW 43:23

When you, uh went back, did you go to Dimnici? Did you go back to your home?

 

AS 43:26

Actually, uh, that's a, uh, no, I did not. And I, uh, I even today, I still regret not going back, um, but I was there in May, so, due to the weather, it was uh snow and rain and all that, the roads are not that good, so we made a decision not to go, um, but I feel like I should have. And next time I go, I definitely am gonna go up there and visit my, the house where I was born. But yeah, I still even today, It's been seven years, I, I regret not going there.

 

MW 43:03

It's tough, it's always, traveling is always, with the itinerary and everything
 

AS 44:05

Yeah, there's a, there's a, something, uh, when I came back, and, uh, you know, when we were there for a month, you know, we went visit, uh, uh, a lot of different places. And you know, we spent some time in Croatia and stuff, uh, but yeah, when I came back, you know, I had, I had great time. You know, what I mean, uh, when you, you know what I mean, you go to a different beach or a different cities every other day, eh, it's, you know, see different stuff and, uh some of the stuff I've never seen there, I lived in, in Bosnia, you know, I was born there, but just because I was a, you know, child, I didn't really travel through the Bosnia and so, uh, there was some stuff that I've never seen that  I was like, "oh, yeah, I want to go see, you know, this that" and it, it was, it was a lot of fun to, like, Mostar, I don't know if you know, about the bridge in Mostar, yeah, so we went on there, and spent, you know, a few hours on the bridge and kind of, uh visit that, I've, I've never seen it before until the time I visited it, um the Croatia is beautiful, like all the beaches and stuff, I'm pretty sure you guys know, but uh, yeah, yeah, it was, uh, but when I came back, all that, but there's a, there's a small part of me that always thinks like, wow, I should have went and visit Dimnici, and I didn't, but yeah, yeah at some point I will go definitely, for sure
 

MW 45:19

Yeah, it's good to make plans for the future.

AS 45:22

Yeah, yeah (laughs) uh

MW 45:24

Yeah, Um, so kind of taking it back to, to Carlisle when you're around here, um, we talked before, uh, we, we started recording about, um the Independence Day celebration [Hosted by the Bosniaks Islamic Cultural Center in Carlisle 03/05/2022], um, which I understand you, you were busy and did..., didn't get to go to. Do you still keep in touch with the community? Do you participate with the, um cultural center?
 
 

AS 45:44

So, uh, I, ah, I'm kinda, I don't know how to explain myself to you guys, but I'm kind of between like, uh, I, so, I'm, I'm like a bridge, right? Um, between like the, the Bosnian culture and American, uh, uh, uh, culture, or American, you know, everything, so I do keep up with the, the Bosnians but not, as much as like, you know, every day, but I'm also well established in Carlisle, that I know a lot of people they need, you know what I mean, so like, um, you know, from Mayor [Sean Shultz], to, to the different attorneys, to different, you know, like Dickinson College and have a great connection with Dickinson College, Law School, I have a great connection, you know what I mean, so stuff like that, uh, so, I, I do kinda try to help them, you know, Bosnians, I don't know if you met, Zenaid, but like, I tried to, you know, kind of, hey, you know, this is the people you should know you should talk to and stuff like that, different projects and stuff they did, um, I kind of, I'm not involved in it, but I'm the one that kind of bring them all together, and then, I can, like I told them before, um, you know, I'll, I'll get you to the right people, but it's up to you, what do you want to do with that, so, but I do keep up with a lot of people from, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm, you know what I mean, I, I try to, to keep up the, the, you know, have a good relationship with them, uh, just, was it, few months ago, when, uh, the, the, immigrants from Afghanistan were coming over, ah, we, my, my fiancée, Mimi and I, uh,I called, uh, uh, Bedrudin and, uh, Zenaid and asked them, you know, if they can spread the word about donations and stuff, and I don't even know how many times I went to the, to the center, and how many bags of, you know, clothes, and whatever else they had, you know, bring it over there to Army War College, but it was, it was kind of, you know, she was shocked, and I wasn't because I know, you know, we as people are really giving, so, like, but, Mimi was kind of like surprised by it,  and I know that, you know, I wasn't because I know that, you know, a few years ago, we went through the same thing, so I knew that people will help no matter what, so yeah, yeah, yeah, I do have a great relationship with them.

 

MW 48:04

That's wonderful, um is it important for you to continue the culture, and um, uh, with the language and the culture, and participating in that?

AS 48:11

Yeah, yeah, so, uh, I, s... a few years ago, I started, uh, translating, uh, for Carlisle School District, um, for different parents, they don't speak English, so I go there and like different conferences and stuff like that and translate for them, just to help them understand. And then at some point, I realized, like, wow, these kids are struggling in everything other than math, but they're not struggling because they're not, you know what I mean, smarter, or they don't want to pay attention, they're struggling because the parents don't understand what needs to be done. So, I talked to the, the, the, the center, um, and, uh, Islamic Center, and they said, "Oh", because I knew they had upstairs, they have different rooms and stuff, so, um, I talked to them and say, "Oh, maybe we should have like a, you know, Saturday from 10 to 12, bring your kids over, and then we'll help with whatever school, um, work they need", because, uh most of the kids, like I said, most of the kids I translate for the parents, it's, you know, it's all miscommunication between the mom and dad and the kid, because the kid doesn't speak Bosnian, and mom and dad don't speak English, so it's like, you know, how do you put that together? So, uh, but yeah, yeah, they, we did that before COVID, and we had a bunch of kids coming in, people are helping out and stuff like that, which was pretty neat to see, you know, but, yeah, yeah, I do, it's a good, uh, good, small community, I think, strong, small but really strong, and I think people are, you know, there for each other, which is really, really important.

 

MW 49:47

That's awesome, when you first came over, um, outside of the Bosnian community, did you feel welcomed by the Carlisle community?
 

AS 49:57

Uh, yeah, I mean we lived here, yeah, since 2002, I don't I don't remember ever having an issue with somebody, you know, the... there's always someone that, uh, uh, uh it's mad because you're speaking Bosnian, or it's mad because, you know, you, I remember at work, uh, there was, uh, people were getting mad because, so when I started working there it was, uh, I think 17 to 20 Bosnians in, in the same you know, same shift, and, uh we were t..., for end of Ramadan, we were taking off all of us, not like calling off we were like actually scheduling our vacation time off, and people were getting mad, they were like, "oh, how come, you know, all you guys can take off? Like, you know, we can't have" like yeah, you have it for Christmas. And like, we will not complain if they tell us hey, you gotta come in for Christmas, like nobody would complain, we understand that's your, so yeah, uh, there was a little bit in school, Like I said, everywhere you go, It's gonna be a little bit of that, but overall, I think, uh, the Carlisle was definitely a welcoming, uh, uh, community. I believe so
 

MW 51:10

That's good

 

AS 51:10

Uh, yeah, I, I like, I like, um, yeah, I always felt safe in here, always, in the town, but there's always somebody somewhere (laughs)

MW 51:19

Do you celebrate Ramadan?

AS 51:20

I do, yeah, I don't, I don't fast, uh, but I do like, yeah, yeah, end of Ramadan I do celebrate and stuff like that. In the morning I will go to mosque, and, and, uh, go visit, uh, family and stuff like that. But yeah.
 

MW 51:32

For the, for the interview, for the future, we're in the month of Ramadan right now, um,

AS 51:35

Yeah, right now, yeah we are, uh, yeah

MW 51:38

Cause it is J... it's July, or uh, (laughs) it's not July it is, uh

AS 51:41

(Laughs) April

MW 51:42

April sixth, right now, um which I don't believe I mentioned in the beginning, sorry about that, its the, it's the small things

AS 51:48

(Laughs) Yeah
 

MW 51:48

Um, uh, is there anything else you'd like to add for us, any other stories or anything in general you'd like to add to the interview?

 

AS 51:57

I, uh, no, like I said, I think it's a, you know, it's great that, uh, people like you guys, thank you for being interested in, in something like, you know, our stories that, uh, I, I, feel like a lot of people in the world not just in, you know, in here, I'm not talking about just Bosnians, but everywhere, it's like, we are so, it's much easier to, to judge people than actually get to know people, so I think we, that's our kind of like, uh, in our nature to, to judge people before we get to know them and know where they, you know, where they came from, and what they, you know, what they do and how they did it, and all that. So I think it's, it's, you know, great for you guys to, you know, you took your time, uh, to get to know me (laughs), uh, but it's, uh, yeah, yeah, I think we need more people like you guys in the world to kind of (gestures with both hands), uh,  especially what's, you know, what's happening today and what's been happening for past few years, uh, it's really hard to find, uh, people that are interested in other people, like I said, it's much easier to just judge anybody than get to know you. It's sad, but that's where, that's the world we live in, uh, but yeah, yeah, uh, thank you guys, appreciate it
 

MW 53:16

Yeah, I think I've gotten through, um, most of the questions I wanted to answer. I wanted to thank you, uh, It's been an honor and a pleasure to to hear your story.
 

AS 53:23

Thank you guys
 

MW 53:23

Um, At the, at the end, we'll ask is there anybody else that you think we should contact or reach out to that might have a story?
 

AS 53:31

Uh, I think I, I saw the list. I think those are pretty much the people that I kind of felt like, you know, it was a good, that I know of, it was a good group yeah, yeah, yeah

MW 53:41

Oh, wonderful, well it is currently, uh, 1:50[pm], um, again I want to thank you, this has been really an honor, um, I'm Michael Wymer I am here with Sam, um, Lavine, as ca... uh, cameraman, um, and that's, that concludes our interview, thank you

AS 53:56

Thank you so much, yeah, appreciate you guys